Electrohypersensitivity and Wifi in Schools

From the 1920s to now, technology has transformed radically; from the Spirit of St Louis to super-sonic stealth bombers, from the discovery of insulin to mRNA vaccines, from the candle-stick telephone to a 5G powerhouse in your pocket

As the reports of sensitivity to WiFi and mobile signals rise, we discuss the recognised restrictions , risks, and reasonable alternatives for public health with Michael Bevington from Electrosensitivity UK  

Find more at: https://www.es-uk.info/

Transcript

00:00:05 Will Mountford 

Hello. I'm Will. Welcome to research pod. Looking back on the last 100 years of technological development, there are many dramatic comparisons to draw of then and now from the spirit of Saint Louis to supersonic stealth bombers from the discovery of insulin to mRNA vaccines. 

00:00:21 Will Mountford 

From a Candlestick telephone to a 5G powerhouse in your pocket. 

00:00:26 Will Mountford 

Today I'm speaking with Michael Bevington from Electrosensitivity UK about the largely unexpected consequences of a mass deployment of novel technologies across all sectors of society. 

00:00:37 Will Mountford 

As reports of sensitivity to Wi-Fi and mobile signals rise, we discuss the recognized restrictions, risks and reasonable alternatives for public health. 

00:00:51 Will Mountford 

And joining me today is Michael Bevington, Michael Hello. For my own information and for everybody listening at home. Could you tell me a bit about yourself, your background and what's led you to our conversation today? 

00:01:03 Michael Bevington 

I spent my career whole career in teaching and in 2006, when Wi-Fi was put into my classroom, I went down with some strange, very unpleasant aspects of health. 

00:01:17 Michael Bevington 

And that really got me involved in the whole issue to continue teaching the Wi-Fi had to be the new mobile phones had to be removed, and since then I become part of the charity Electrosensitivity UK, its chair of trustees, and I've researched as much as I can and try to alert other people as to. 

00:01:37 Michael Bevington 

Some of the problems with this technology. 

00:01:39 Will Mountford 

I mean, it's something that you say has affected you personally, but to give us more of a broad scope, could you tell me about the landscape of Electro hypersensitivity? It's... kind of the aetiology, how many people across the UK or even globally if you have the figures are candidates or affected by this? 

00:01:57 Michael Bevington 

Well, every human person, every cell in your body, is sensitive to magnetic and electric fields, so they're all sensitive of that about 80% to react in adverse ways, which can be shown about 30% have conscious symptoms. 

00:02:17 Michael Bevington 

Often quite. 

00:02:18 Michael Bevington 

Well. 

00:02:19 Michael Bevington 

About 3% have strong conscious symptoms and about 1.6% have severe symptoms. That's taken from figures right around the world. 

00:02:30 Michael Bevington 

And my reckoning is perhaps, 0.65% are then unable to work because of those very severe symptoms they get from being in the presence of mandmade radiofrequency, like Wi-Fi, mobile phones, masks and things like that. 

00:02:45 Michael Bevington 

So it it's it's a very wide spectrum, but. 

00:02:47 Michael Bevington 

we're all affected. 

00:02:49 Will Mountford 

Well, they mentioned some of the technologies there, but electromagnetism is a whole. It's a big wide field of physics, so if we can maybe set some terms in terms of what kind of radiation, what kind of frequencies and what kind of technologies we're going to be talking about in more detail today, can you walk us through some of the boundaries here? 

00:03:10 Michael Bevington 

My understanding is that at very low frequencies you get what's called both electric and magnetic fields, and those have been known and studied since this 1730s. And interestingly, right at the start, a lot of it was done by the Royal Society at London. But few people began to react to this element of hyper sensitivity which might affect. 

00:03:31 Michael Bevington 

Just said some 1 to 3% of the population. 

00:03:35 Michael Bevington 

And we still don't quite understand how that's triggered, but it's certainly there and it is obviously a growing problem in the modern world. 

00:03:44 Michael Bevington 

So those are low frequencies, things like power lines and the electricity and cables running around your house. 

00:03:51 Michael Bevington 

But I suppose affects more people these days. Are the radio frequencies, so those are much faster. If you like variations on on the stream that comes out from the transmitter, and they're not. 

00:04:07 Michael Bevington 

Fast as the ionizing radiation, which is what you get from gamma rays X-rays, things like that. 

00:04:14 Michael Bevington 

Then you can get things like the sun's rays and below that infrared, and then you come to the radio frequency. So we're talking about things we most we can't see and most people can't feel that if you can. But as I say, are affecting ourselves. It's complicated because in fact, no rock band signals. 

00:04:35 Michael Bevington 

Use a transmitter frequency, which might be at 2.45 gigahertz for Wi-Fi. That other thing, or 65 gigahertz or high. 

00:04:44 Michael Bevington 

And. 

00:04:45 Michael Bevington 

But then on that they send packets of information and those packets can be at lower frequencies. 

00:04:53 Michael Bevington 

So there's two different things which are at Interplay with each of your cells and. 

00:05:00 Michael Bevington 

Often it's thought that it's those changes as the packets hit each membrane cell wall and that has a biological effect on them. 

00:05:09 Will Mountford 

To take that biological effect up from the cellular level to the whole person level, what kind of symptoms are associated with EHS? 

00:05:18 Michael Bevington 

Probably the most common over the years has been things like headaches. 

00:05:22 Michael Bevington 

And related to that, any neurological effect so brain fog, sleep disturbance. 

00:05:29 Michael Bevington 

Could be tinnitus ringing in the ears. It could be, or eyesight, getting blurred eyes. 

00:05:37 Michael Bevington 

It can have quite distinct effects, like Nosebleed. 

00:05:41 Michael Bevington 

It's. 

00:05:42 Michael Bevington 

And if people have certain types of skin conditions or just certain types of skin, probably or muscles, then it might appear as a rash on your arm or your face, or your. 

00:05:54 Michael Bevington 

Back. 

00:05:55 Michael Bevington 

Hip can occur in terms of the muscle contracting or pending to work, so all sorts of neurological. 

00:06:03 Michael Bevington 

Effects, which are physiological, they're nothing to do with the psychology, can't induce yourself to to think. 

00:06:10 Michael Bevington 

They can get it just because you think you've seen a mobile phone. It's so there's two very distinct conditions. One is this one to two with the physiological reaction where you can just see it. A lot of the testing provocation tests are what they call blinded, where people are don't know what's going on. 

00:06:30 Michael Bevington 

But they can still they still react and other people can see. 

00:06:34 Michael Bevington 

As opposed to ones where where they know what's happening so that that is well established, you can do that with animals and snapping. Very commonly they they do endless tests on poor mice and rats and put them in mazes and. 

00:06:49 Michael Bevington 

Buy this stuff. 

00:06:50 Michael Bevington 

At them and discover that they lose their memory, they lose their learning. 

00:06:54 Michael Bevington 

And you go on and on all these different cognitive and neurological effects can affect them, except feeding habits. Digestion is one which is often affected balance. 

00:07:05 Michael Bevington 

Spinning of the head brain fog is something which is a curious one, which you can get and loss of spatial awareness. Spatial memory very often common, but you can get words mixed. 

00:07:18 Michael Bevington 

Up. 

00:07:19 Michael Bevington 

All sorts of people with Tourettes can be affected. All sorts of different ways. 

00:07:25 Michael Bevington 

And as I say, a lot of that you can parallel in the animal Kingdom as well. 

00:07:30 Will Mountford 

Now we are recording this using electronic devices and you mentioned that Wi-Fi in your school was kind of your first experience of hypersensitivity. 

00:07:39 Will Mountford 

But could you tell me just as someone who has affected what kind of place technology has in your day-to-day life? And from there we can? 

00:07:46 Will Mountford 

Look. 

00:07:46 Will Mountford 

Into preventative measures and from there leading to Wi-Fi in schools and controls. 

00:07:54 Michael Bevington 

From my own point of view, I try to keep out of what I know is the radiation as much as I can. 

00:08:00 Michael Bevington 

So I try to avoid using a mobile phone and being placed to people who use mobile phones, try to avoid being in a house with Wi-Fi, I use protective Nets, military know all about this with use it in warfare. So I use that type of netting as too many people in this condition. 

00:08:19 Michael Bevington 

But of course, you immediately realize it's very restrictive. It then means that actually, if you go off to a certain place, you are very limited in what you risk exposing yourself to without having consequences in. In my case, I can have the consequences. 

00:08:38 Michael Bevington 

All 16 hours after I've been in the place, but I may not feel it. 

00:08:42 Michael Bevington 

At the time, so it. 

00:08:44 Michael Bevington 

It's one reason why probably most people who suffer haven't got any idea what they're suffering from, because it is actually quite complex to work out those trips. 

00:08:54 Michael Bevington 

And. 

00:08:55 Michael Bevington 

So I was visiting a picture gallery recently and it seemed to be fine going through all of it except one end. 

00:09:03 Michael Bevington 

It just happened to be near the shop and presumably I don't know. They had some partial transmitter down that end, or even more part one, and it would affect me. So as long as I kept away from that area, it wasn't too bad. So if I go into a city or an area where I know there might be a lot of Wi-Fi people using their mobile phones. 

00:09:23 Michael Bevington 

I'll try to wear protective clothing. 

00:09:26 Michael Bevington 

But that's expensive and. 

00:09:28 Michael Bevington 

Present. 

00:09:29 Michael Bevington 

Prevent everything so it is actually an incredibly limiting situation, and I've got off quite lightly. There are many people out there who and end up having to live in a tent on in the Wilds, in the car, out in the. 

00:09:42 Michael Bevington 

Forests. 

00:09:43 Michael Bevington 

And it's when. 

00:09:44 Michael Bevington 

It first hits you and you don't know what it is. 

00:09:47 Michael Bevington 

And you don't protect yourself enough. Your body seems to go into this hyper state. It's very similar to any allergy where you might have a reaction to, let's say, peanuts or something like that. 

00:10:00 Michael Bevington 

When you, you might tolerate a very low amount, but if you have too much, certainly the body will trigger itself and go into some hyper reactivity and when you get into that state it takes quite a long time for the body to calm down and all the leading scientists, doctors who involved in this say the. 

00:10:20 Michael Bevington 

Thing to do, remove the radiation around you get into a situation where you're back to if you like, back to nature and the the levels we've got are billions of times higher than nature. Human beings just weren't designed for it, more, more as nature, for that matter, actually. But certainly we weren't designed for it. 

00:10:38 Michael Bevington 

And for those? 

00:10:39 Michael Bevington 

Of us who have got a particular. 

00:10:41 Michael Bevington 

Genetic makeup it it can be pretty devastating. 

00:10:45 Will Mountford 

Well, let's talk safety thresholds. Let's talk limits of what has been set out by I've got a couple of abbreviations here for IRC, NIRP, and other fun acronyms. Water has been broadly established as a tolerable amount of radiation. What kind of? I think it's microwatts. 

00:11:06 Will Mountford 

You what? What's a safe in? You know, what is the standard allowed dosage? 

00:11:12 Will Mountford 

If we were. 

00:11:14 Michael Bevington 

There are two viewpoints on the. 

00:11:17 Michael Bevington 

There is one viewpoint, which is the one I hold that you can show. This affects every cell in the body and it has adverse effects for a large number of people and we need to have. Therefore what we call non thermal and long term limits. 

00:11:35 Michael Bevington 

The industry who pump this stuff out, and some governments who obviously benefit from taxation and so forth, want to hold to an invalidated myth which has was put out by a person called Herman Schwann in 1953, that the only adverse effect is heat. 

00:11:53 

See. 

00:11:54 Michael Bevington 

So it's as though you Butch yourself into your home microwave oven and therefore you want to prevent people's bodies from being heated by more than either 1° in 6 minutes or over 30 minutes. That sort of amount. 

00:12:11 Michael Bevington 

Of course, when you think about it. 

00:12:12 Michael Bevington 

That doesn't really explain things like cancers, which aren't caused by heating 1° / 6. 

00:12:18 Michael Bevington 

Minutes, whereas that's one of the very well established effects or radio frequency for mobile phones, masks and things like that, and has been known since 1953. Curiously, the very year that this person in Schwann put out his heating unit. So you do tend to feel that there's one group who wants to have it. 

00:12:38 Michael Bevington 

And aren't too worried about causing harm to other people. And then there's that I would call now the majority scientists who say there are problems here. 

00:12:48 Michael Bevington 

So they if you do it in the electric field, they will allow up to 61 volts per meter. 

00:12:55 Michael Bevington 

The biological limits are usually set at 0.6 volts per meter. I would say what you need to do is look at the lower aisle that the no observable adverse effect level. 

00:13:09 Michael Bevington 

And to my mind, for people like me and those affected by it, it's something like 0.05 volts per metre. And then what you do is you put in a safety barrier after that and you lower it by 10 times. So you'd come out with something like nought point nought, nought, 5. 

00:13:29 Michael Bevington 

Per meter. 

00:13:30 Michael Bevington 

If you do it in terms of microwatts. 

00:13:33 Michael Bevington 

Or or microwatts per meter squared. And you're right, this is incredibly complex. It the heating limit. It comes out at something like 10 million or 40 million. 

00:13:46 Michael Bevington 

And what the by initiative report, one of the main mainstream ones has suggested would be something in the region of three microwatts, a meter squared. 

00:13:57 Michael Bevington 

And I might take that down to 0.6 or something like that or other than that. So you can see there's a very, very, very big divide between the two approaches. 

00:14:08 Michael Bevington 

And. 

00:14:10 Michael Bevington 

It just seems to be extraordinary, but the only thing that many governments protect against is the heating, when it's actually very well known that isn't the main problem, that the primary effect of radiofrequency is are the non thermal, the not non heating effects are there to do with how the. 

00:14:31 Michael Bevington 

Cell membranes are affected polarized depolarized, which then leads to calcium and other ions ingress into the cell which leads to triggering of the cellular functions and signals through the body right through the. 

00:14:46 Michael Bevington 

So I think you can see if you ask the question what. 

00:14:49 Michael Bevington 

Is a safe. 

00:14:49 Michael Bevington 

Level you first have to say, do you believe in just heating effects or do you accept the law? Non heating, non thermal effects and long term effects so that it accumulates over the years so you can walk past obviously a bone mass. 

00:15:06 Michael Bevington 

And it's not going to cause you cancer to walk past once, but if you live in a. 

00:15:10 Michael Bevington 

House. 

00:15:11 Michael Bevington 

Let's say 300 meters away and sleep every night in that room of that bone mast. Then you're up to 10 times more likely to get cancer. 

00:15:20 Michael Bevington 

But that's over a matter of years, not just one walking past it. 

00:15:25 Michael Bevington 

So it's it's. 

00:15:26 Michael Bevington 

A challenge for people doing public health. 

00:15:29 Michael Bevington 

And at the moment in the UK, we've got massively long, we we're we're only on the heating limits, we're not on the non heating limits. 

00:15:44 Will Mountford 

I'd only be doing my due diligence if I didn't say that there have been countermanding studies that refute the existence of HS in the ways that we are talking about in the ways that you have been experiencing. Is this an absence of evidence or an evidence of absence to those studies and to those researchers who disagree with your position and the research there is? 

00:16:06 Will Mountford 

What do we say to that? 

00:16:09 Michael Bevington 

Works very straightforward that there is plenty of evidence that this is occurring. 

00:16:14 Michael Bevington 

What they like to do is to take. 

00:16:17 Michael Bevington 

A group of people. 

00:16:19 Michael Bevington 

And then try to find out that most of them are reacting to their level of decided level of radiofrequency. 

00:16:27 Michael Bevington 

And they will do what are called propagation studies. I was just saying. 

00:16:32 Michael Bevington 

Now these we did one of the first ones and followed Cyril Smith. What they did was workout what frequency each individual is particularly susceptible to. 

00:16:43 Michael Bevington 

And then you can get 100% accuracy. 

00:16:47 Michael Bevington 

But if you do it just as a general broadcast across a random 100. 

00:16:54 Michael Bevington 

Selected people very often, youngsters from university or something like that. They use healthy people. You would, according to my statistics and the ones that they're using, you're only going to be about 1-2 or three percent, one or two or three out of those hundred who might react. And of course, you might not have any of them in that particular. 

00:17:12 Michael Bevington 

100. 

00:17:14 Michael Bevington 

Then they like to average. So if you get four or five, people will react, but 95% don't. They can then say, well, actually the majority don't react, therefore it's safe. 

00:17:27 Michael Bevington 

Or they can say it's happened with some of these tests. The Essex one people attended. They were badly hurt by it, so they couldn't go on with it. But they were then just dropped out of the equation altogether. 

00:17:41 Michael Bevington 

What you actually have to do is take each person individually and some of the most promising of these. These are the ecological studies as we call them, where you actually put a receiver on the individual person, then get them to keep a record or when they might feel effects an adverse effects. 

00:18:02 Michael Bevington 

And then see if you can tie the two up. 

00:18:05 Michael Bevington 

And where they've done it, they've only on one study. They had three people and two people. 

00:18:10 Michael Bevington 

Didn't seem to correlate, even though they said they were both sensitive, but most of those exposures were under nought, point nought, 5 volts per metre, and the one who was living more in a city area and had more exposures at above nought. Point nought. 5 volts did. 

00:18:26 Michael Bevington 

8. 

00:18:27 Michael Bevington 

So that's one out of three or three people who are supposed to be highly sensitive where they were living in an environment where in fact they weren't meeting the sort of challenges which they might meet in some other environments. So it's a very challenging issue to work out. It doesn't follow the ordinary. 

00:18:48 Michael Bevington 

Linear dose response issue, which again is purely an assumption which some people have made mainly the governments and the heating lobby. So it must be a linear response. No they made for years that actually get windows of frequency. 

00:19:02 Michael Bevington 

It's so having said that, it's not good to live 300 meters from a brain mass. 

00:19:08 Michael Bevington 

Actually, it also appears that you get little pockets where you're at much lower levels and those are much more bioactives as we call it, they have much more effect on the human body than some higher levels. 

00:19:21 Michael Bevington 

So it's a massively complex area to get in. 

00:19:25 Michael Bevington 

And so far, the provocation tests by those sponsored by the wireless or government industries, wireless industries or governments who favor the wireless industries, they haven't wanted to produce any affairs which they can see. So they deliberately, as far as. 

00:19:43 Michael Bevington 

We can. They can. 

00:19:45 Michael Bevington 

The result or one what case where they actually had the phone, which was or the device which was supposed to be in standby, emitting quite strong signals even when it wasn't standby. So you get these really quite complex situations. 

00:20:01 Michael Bevington 

Which need need to be resolved. But as I say, probably the best way for them to go in the future is what they were doing in the 19. 

00:20:08 Michael Bevington 

80S is to deal with each person individually, so we know at what level they respond and the other factor, which has massively changed the situation in the last 18 months, is that 2 researchers, one very distinguished one in Sweden. 

00:20:24 Michael Bevington 

Have been looking at a whole series eight. I think they've done now case studies which are just like publication studies. 

00:20:31 Michael Bevington 

For people who happen to be living or working in apartments where they have put up the 5G masts nearby might be, say, 5100 meters away on a nearby office building on the top, beaming straight into the windows of someone's flat. 

00:20:47 Michael Bevington 

And I had a look at these and it's curious, usually within three weeks, those people are affected, have become seriously ill to the point where they can't continue either to work or live in those apartments or flats. 

00:21:02 Michael Bevington 

And they have to leave when they leave, they recover. And most of the ill health disappears again. 

00:21:09 Michael Bevington 

When they go back into the flat, it starts again. So it's absolutely like a provocation test and it's they've got eight of them now and it shows that actually it's a major problem. It doesn't happen to everyone. So it doesn't mean that the whole Boca Boca plant is emptied, but when it does happen to the individual. 

00:21:29 Michael Bevington 

It's absolutely devastating. They can't live in their own home because what someone else has done 100 metres away or something like. 

00:21:36 Michael Bevington 

That, and with no proper protection from the government or the people who are supposed to be looking after this thing because they simply say it's all to do with heating. It's not to do with non heating effects. 

00:21:51 Will Mountford 

Safe buildings to be in leads into the conversations about Wi-Fi in schools and some of your recent publications around that, starting from your own experience as being a teacher who had to. 

00:22:03 Will Mountford 

Stop having Wi-Fi in the school that you are in to what Wi-Fi in schools looks like. What kind of distribution you see about routers, about mobile phones, and what that means for the people inside of those buildings. 

00:22:18 Michael Bevington 

Or perhaps to start with the actual technology of the Wi-Fi that produces radio frequency, which is regarded by the World Health Organization and lot as A2 to be possible carcinogen building. 

00:22:33 Michael Bevington 

So. So it's also being branded as causing cancer by a study in America required by the FDA and the and TP as a clear cause of cancer that's been made since 1953. So it is concerning if schools use Wi-Fi. 

00:22:54 Michael Bevington 

Or all the time pupils are there because it equivalent to be like or putting them in classroom filled with cigarette smoke pestos or something which is regarded as also a carcinogen. 

00:23:07 Michael Bevington 

Obviously, if you put people in an area with tobacco smoke, they're going to go down with lung cancer. So we're not saying that everyone automatically goes down. This cancer is caused by the Wi-Fi, but nevertheless it is regarded by the experts as capable of causing cancer. 

00:23:25 Michael Bevington 

It's a curious signal, and it's got a very wide spread. 

00:23:30 Michael Bevington 

More so than some other signals, and it has initial signal handshake signal at 10 Hertz and then it will operate on a carrier frequency needs to be 5 gigahertz, some are going up to five or six gigahertz. 

00:23:48 Michael Bevington 

And all the mobile phones use it. So if people have staff have mobile phones in schools, it may divert on to the local Wi-Fi system. 

00:23:58 Michael Bevington 

Typically in a school it will be provided by routers or routers from the ceiling and the walls, but of course it goes straight through ceilings and walls and people of course, and so you can't stop it from getting into a classroom by simply putting your device transmitter the router. 

00:24:18 Michael Bevington 

Matter in the corridor. It will still go into the nearby classrooms, and if it's in one classroom, you can go into the next classroom, and so on. 

00:24:27 Michael Bevington 

In terms of health effect, obviously I went down with it. Many people are affected by it consciously and a small number to the point where life becomes very difficult. There was a case which I heard of where a child they wouldn't know anything about this, so it's not suppose which is what the industry would like to think. 

00:24:48 Michael Bevington 

That's posed by psychological theory of the artist, although this poor child is ill each, I think it's a Monday afternoon. 

00:24:56 Michael Bevington 

And the parents couldn't work out why she came back saying, oh, I've got a terrible headache. I can't stand that lesson. They there was a lesson, then turned out that it was an IT lesson that had been taken off to an IT room. And this poor child has been forced to sit near to arrive by neutral answer. 

00:25:13 Michael Bevington 

And so once that's known, then of course the teachers could help make sure the child could either as far as possible from it or not in that particular classroom. 

00:25:23 Michael Bevington 

So it it is actually quite complex to work out sometimes how people are going to be affected and that's where when you come to a school, you have to have risk assessments for most things. Now it's very curious because when you think about this, there are there are two big organizations. 

00:25:43 Michael Bevington 

Which you looked at trying to produce some sort of risk assessment one is Eichner, which is a private organization from Germany and very much favours the wireless industry. 

00:25:57 Michael Bevington 

But in 2002, they produced their general principles and said with our people who are vulnerable, who suffer from effects adverse effects from radio frequency at the low heating levels. 

00:26:10 Michael Bevington 

But it can only provide heating level limits, so they have effectively admitted. 

00:26:18 Michael Bevington 

There are going to be people in the country who are in the classroom who are going to be affected by the school's Wi-Fi here. They simply keep to these heating units, which is, which is what the UK Government does through the Health Security Agency. 

00:26:35 Michael Bevington 

What they actually says is individual governments should set their own level which is appropriate. So if we apply that to schools, then each school needs to set its own level, and that's what the health and safety executive, who actually do a lot of the application of the electrical regulations in this country have told me that, yes, a school should have. 

00:26:56 Michael Bevington 

And non thermal risk assessment for its premises and especially for life. 

00:27:01 Michael Bevington 

Then there's the new International Commission on biological effects of Emma. 

00:27:08 Michael Bevington 

And they've looked at this and they've come to the same conclusion that that, that pickups heating levels are not good enough, they're not protected for us all. 

00:27:16 Michael Bevington 

And therefore what they would like to do is replace the heating levels with actually some protective guidelines for the whole population. 

00:27:25 Michael Bevington 

So that's yet to happen, but that's what the majority viewpoint, in my view think. So my my approach to this is that each school should actually look and see what it's doing in terms of this protection of its pupils, because we know that a small proportion 1 to 3%. 

00:27:45 Michael Bevington 

Could be quite badly affected, and this includes the teachers of course, like me in the. 

00:27:50 Michael Bevington 

Past. 

00:27:51 Michael Bevington 

And then. 

00:27:53 Michael Bevington 

Up to 30% will be hardly affected. In some ways they may have bad sleep each time they been to the school and they want children to really know why and they therefore need to come to some sort of conclusion. Countries like France are just simply banned on Wi-Fi in their infants. 

00:28:13 Michael Bevington 

Schools or nurseries, and they're severely limited in elementary and primary schools, so cycles than other countries have done that. So some countries are much more up to date on these science than what we are in the UK. 

00:28:27 Michael Bevington 

And then you also have things like gym. There happens to be a mosque just outside the school. And I mentioned to you earlier that there were a series of these studies in Sweden which showed very clearly that just all these people, people who aren't hypersensitive but are just ordinary folk who living close to are masks, which arrives. 

00:28:48 Michael Bevington 

Parents suffer very severely to the point of having to leave their work or their school when the mass was put up. 

00:28:54 Michael Bevington 

And one of their studies, interestingly, was about people is very aged 8 in the school. Who who thought it that he suffered terrible headaches and so on when he went out to play in the playground and eventually when it was all tracked down, they discovered it was to do with a mask for 5G mask, which had been put up. 

00:29:14 Michael Bevington 

Outside the school that was beaming strongest into the most strongly into that particular playground. So that's the sort of thing which, again, a school ought to be aware of. And I've seen myself when I was teaching how masks from the vicinity can affect pupils. 

00:29:31 Michael Bevington 

And to the point where I had a number who were quite clearly all of them, the effects of these Moss transmitting to other people's brains, but along their way, you couldn't see them at all. You just have to be aware of the, the background and the configuration of the geography in that case appears. So again, it still needs to be aware whether it. 

00:29:51 Michael Bevington 

Has a problem with nearby Marks and that's why the Stewart report in the year 2000 said that whenever local planners were going to allow boss, they needed to consult with the school. The governments head teacher and. 

00:30:05 Michael Bevington 

Parents over over a mask, which was proposed close to a school there, would be or might go with maximum intensity on to the school, because that can have a, as I say, a very catastrophic effect for some people, and indeed for everyone, even if they can't hear. 

00:30:27 Will Mountford 

Well, you mentioned that in France it is heavily restricted and a couple of other places as well, four schools in the UK that might want to keep the facility of an Internet connection but lose the Wi-Fi technology, what alternatives would offer the same functionality with limited exposure. 

00:30:47 Michael Bevington 

The obvious one, of course, is to use wiring Ethernet cables, and that's what I do at home. And what a lot of people do. It's much more obviously secure and economic, spending a vast amount of money and energy resources now on these wireless transmitters. 

00:31:05 Michael Bevington 

Clearly, from the point of view of school, there are some who think it's more convenient to be able to walk around and put their laptop down wherever they want, but you can't with smoking with asbestos. Really, you do actually have to think in the bigger grand scheme of things, not over just your convenience and what you particularly. 

00:31:25 Michael Bevington 

Your it's a factory cheaper. 

00:31:27 Michael Bevington 

So some schools have gone down, but only a very small number down the route of hard wiring, and that would be a very obvious thing to do. So that rather like if you want to plug your laptop in to charge it, you have to plug it into a socket in the wall. If you want to connect with the Internet, you plug it into a socket in the wall. It's as simple as that. You can run them into the desks and. 

00:31:49 Michael Bevington 

And so on. 

00:31:50 Michael Bevington 

Another way to obviously to reduce it would be to simply switch it off when you don't need it. So rather than have the signal running all the time in the classroom, just hit the teacher, particularly once at a particular point they switch it on. When they switch it off again, and that's very easily done. A lot of people do that. 

00:32:10 Michael Bevington 

How many day to give them better chance of night and so on. A new thing which is coming in is a device called Wi-Fi where you use LED lamps to shine down into a receiver on the laptop. 

00:32:23 Michael Bevington 

And no ones yet fully studied the health effects of that, and it could be because light is an another electromagnetic field system. So just like Wi-Fi, it could be there. The downsides to that, but at the moment it looks as though the the health effects are less they're reduced compared with the Wi-Fi which we know. 

00:32:45 Michael Bevington 

We definitely can cause cancers and other neurological problems, as I say, so that could be a possible solution for the future that would allow you. 

00:32:54 Michael Bevington 

To move around. 

00:32:55 Michael Bevington 

But I think basically the school has to make up its own mind what they regard as an acceptable level of this, and also of course of equality, because for those very few children and staff who are badly affected, it then becomes an issue about access to all areas of school and really. 

00:33:15 Michael Bevington 

These days, we ought to be able to allow everyone to go everywhere and not limit the facilities in the school, access different parts only to those who don't react to this particular toxin, which will spill over so much of the country. 

00:33:30 Michael Bevington 

And in terms of disability in schools of its physical these days, so wheelchair access, where possible, schools will try to make that available. And so the same ought to be done for this issue over over Wi-Fi and radio frequency signals that really they need to be restricted. 

00:33:50 Michael Bevington 

They say that actually all people can access all areas all the time and not have it limited to just some people. 

00:33:59 Will Mountford 

If anyone listening to this is concerned that this might be affecting their life, if it's maybe connecting a couple of dots for. 

00:34:06 Will Mountford 

Them. 

00:34:07 Will Mountford 

Where can people find out more about you? About the NHS charity, more about technology than might be of interest to maybe make their lives a little? 

00:34:15 Will Mountford 

Bit more comfortable. 

00:34:17 Michael Bevington 

There are numerous websites. The charity I involved with is called Electrosensitivity UK B80 to US UK and the website is esriuk.info, so plenty of information on it and plenty of backup scientific studies. 

00:34:38 Michael Bevington 

So it's it's really just a matter of becoming aware of it. Sadly, the best doesn't like talking about it because of course, much of their income comes from things like mobile phones and other uses of wireless. But it's it is actually quite a big issue for every single school to grapple with and decide what's appropriate for them. 

00:34:58 Michael Bevington 

Actually carry out some sort of risk assessment, but our website is actually dedicated to Wi-Fi and schools and things like that and quite a number of groups who are active on that front. So I'm sure people can find out more if they wish. 

00:35:14 Will Mountford 

And if there's anyone who you would hope that this message reaches in terms of either the public or clinical professionals or policy makers, what would those take away messages for those kind of different levels of potential influence be? 

00:35:30 Michael Bevington 

I think it it. 

00:35:31 Michael Bevington 

Has to apply to every school. There should be a governor who's whose particular responsibility for health and safety. Obviously the head teacher is ultimately responsible for health and safety. 

00:35:43 Michael Bevington 

And they may. 

00:35:44 Michael Bevington 

Wish to delegate it to someone else. 

00:35:46 Michael Bevington 

But all these people need actually to look at the science, look at the evidence and do the research for themselves. Because at the moment the UK HSA only provides heating units. And as I explained several times, BTC is not the problem when it comes to cancers, to electrosensitivity, to neurological. 

00:36:06 Michael Bevington 

Ex. Parkinson's, uh, even autism, ADHD, fatigue, all sorts of things can be made worse by having radio frequency. 

00:36:17 Michael Bevington 

Setting multiple sclerosis, where you have been nomination and things like that. So it actually is a big issue and every single school needs to take that on board. Individual teachers need to be aware that their pupils may be affected. Individual teachers and their colleagues may be affected or their parents could be affected. 

00:36:36 Michael Bevington 

As well. So it's something which society needs to take much more care over.