Open For Business

Malaysia welcomes far more international students than any other country in SE Asia, yet it is losing talent faster than most with its brightest minds leaving the country to pursue careers overseas. 

With Malaysia’s Higher Education Plan due to expire in 2025, this episode sets the scene for a series of podcasts that will explore how universities could turn the situation around – particularly the role supercomputers, spin outs and a more porous campus could play in reshaping the sector to position the country as an attractive option for students, researchers, workers and business. 


Featuring Prof Evelyn Welch (University of Bristol) and Andrew Sheng.

Find out more about the 'Open for Business' podcast series. 

Transcript

00:00:10 Will Mountford

The Malaysian Government has outlined plans for a new, higher education system, one that is in line with the current developments in artificial intelligence and one that strengthens the capacity for universities to commercialize research. There is also a drive for a new approach to the delivery of university education that focuses on the creation of campuses that are open for business as hotbeds of collaboration and innovation.

00:00:31 Will Mountford

The heart of the cities in which they reside.

00:00:34 Will Mountford

As such, universities are set to become increasingly entwined with industry and vice versa. But is Malaysia ready for this shift? And will the proposed changes really open up opportunity for those traditionally unable to access a university education? I'm Will Mountford and today I'm joined by Andrew Sheng, a board member for Wawasan Open University in Penang.

00:00:54 Will Mountford

And Professor Evelyn Welch from the University of Bristol.

00:01:05 Will Mountford

Hello to the both of you. To get things started, Andrew - AI is the big thing. There is a need for AI a want for AI across all sectors across all industries. Apparently a lot of people is higher education in Malaysia ready for that next revolution?

00:01:22 Andrew Sheng

Well, nobody's quite ready for this revolution to tell the truth, I think Malaysia is well aware of this massive transformation that's ongoing because of the advent of artificial intelligence, robotics, and, you know, all the science that's.

00:01:39 Andrew Sheng

You know, rushing at us, head on the government is, you know, very conscious of this and very conscious that the old model of doing business is fading away quite fast. We have been a major commodity producer, rubber and tin, you know, and then palm oil and.

00:02:00 Andrew Sheng

Oil and gas and we've we've done well in manufacturing, but where we really you know, done quite well below the radar screen is in semiconductors. You know Malaysia's the 6th largest producer of semiconductors.

00:02:15 Andrew Sheng

Because in the early 70s, we welcome the Intel and all the others to come to Malaysia. So we've we've we've got a base, but I and because of arrival of AI, I think everybody saw this both as an opportunity and as well as a threat.

00:02:36 Andrew Sheng

So I think you know everybody from the families to the government, the highest level to the Ministry of Education and the schools are all thinking about this.

00:02:47 Will Mountford

Subject And in terms of where those sectors overlap, business investment or government involvement in education or people's involvement in any of those part.

00:02:57 Will Mountford

Is there appetite and enthusiasm there?

00:03:00 Andrew Sheng

There is the business sector is now crying out. Look, we're losing people. Talent is leaving because if you're very good in AI, Singapore is willing to pay higher salaries. Hong Kong is willing to pay higher salaries. So you know the the, the talent that we have, you know, is is is.

00:03:19 Andrew Sheng

Put it this way from, from our perspective under threat. But how do we retain them and how do we build on them? And I think that's where the cooperation with you know Bristol University and will be fabulous for all of us.

00:03:32 Will Mountford

Yes. And you mentioned the semiconductor industry for the last couple of decades and some big names that people might recognize from home would be you mentioned Intel, but also in NVIDIA and YTL. Are those some of the actors that you see making kind of the recruitment and retention changes necessary to have that industry thrive?

00:03:52 Andrew Sheng

Absolutely. Because I think all everybody in Malaysia recognizes that technology competition is really about talent competition. It's about people, right? You've got the.

00:04:03 Andrew Sheng

Right.

00:04:03 Andrew Sheng

People. You can build it if.

00:04:04 Andrew Sheng

You don't have the.

00:04:05 Andrew Sheng

Right people, you can lose it very, very, very.

00:04:08 Andrew Sheng

Fast. So I think you know, everybody's putting their thoughts to this and I think that the business sector is crying aloud not just and and some of them realize that even the universities and the schools may be a little bit slow because it takes time for them to gear up. So they're actually thinking of investing.

00:04:28 Andrew Sheng

Themselves into their own staff, reskilling, which is very good.

00:04:34 Will Mountford

Well, to follow up on the know that mentioned of you need to build it in the University of Bristol. We have been register the building of a new supercomputer, the Isambard AI Evelyn. Could you tell me how that's come about and what that means for the University of Bristol in appealing to talent, retaining talent and building those kind of skills?

00:04:51 Prof Evelyn Welch

It's really exciting, the University of Bristol has been at the forefront of artificial intelligence in all its meanings, and AI means many things since the 1970.

00:05:03 Prof Evelyn Welch

But just this year, we have now opened the UK's fastest, largest, most powerful supercomputer. That's designed and has the software for artificial intelligence, a national facility which we've constructed and which we will manage for the UK.

00:05:24 Prof Evelyn Welch

But with benefits not just for the UK internationally as well. And one of the really interesting things is the way that artificial intelligence is a truly global phenomena.

00:05:35 Prof Evelyn Welch

As as Andrew saying and we can either be in a sort of supercomputer race with each other, or we can actually, collaboratively and internationally connect so that governments, businesses, researchers and students all, no matter what discipline they're coming from.

00:05:56 Prof Evelyn Welch

All understand what I can do and what AI cannot do, and there's a whole retraining exercise that we really need to undertake together.

00:06:09 Prof Evelyn Welch

So we're really excited about it, particularly because the University of Bristol has 3000 alumni in Malaysia, some of our brightest and best graduates, including Andrew Shang and come from the University of Bristol. So we see our responsibility of creating that talent pipeline not just for the City of Bristol.

00:06:29 Prof Evelyn Welch

Not just for the region or the United Kingdom, but globally as well. And because of our really close long term connections with Kuala Lumpur, with Malaysia, with Penang, we believe that we can actually collaborate closely together on this.

00:06:45 Will Mountford

And in terms of what incoming students see as next steps for them coming out of a degree or any course at the University of Bristol, is that collaboration, that partnership and that connected community, something that you see as appealing to them?

00:06:59 Prof Evelyn Welch

So our students know that they need to be global citizens. The world has shrunk, sometimes in really good ways, sometimes in quite problematic ways. And as Andrew will be able to speak even more than I can, some of those global supply chains that we used to have really open free trade in.

00:07:19 Prof Evelyn Welch

Are now becoming more fragmented.

00:07:22 Prof Evelyn Welch

It so we now need to workout what is the right thing to do, let's say in terms of the semiconductor industry here in the UK, particularly in the SW well, we have great strengths end in Malaysia. We can either compete with each other which has some benefits. It drives up innovation, but also we need to collaborate.

00:07:42 Prof Evelyn Welch

So I'm sure the University of Bristol students of the Future will want to have that global mindset and will want to think not just how do I get a job, whether it's in Bristol or London or Edinburgh, but actually how could I get a job in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Hong Kong, the US East or West Coast?

00:08:02 Will Mountford

Well, as well as learning the skills and learning through courses in terms of learning ethos from each other. Andrew, do you find that that's something that could be learned from in Malaysia kind of the the approach in the model that could be replicated because for all of the opportunities that come with AI and collaboration and new technologies, there's going to be challenges as well that need to be written.

00:08:22 Will Mountford

And met and is Malaysian commercialisation of research business integration up to meet that challenge when it comes?

00:08:30 Andrew Sheng

We're learning. I think the answer is knowledge is global, but actually data is local. The AI works on big data.

00:08:40 Andrew Sheng

And you know, a lot of that data is actually at the local level. So how do we actually learn the global knowledge and actually apply it locally is really the key. And I think, you know, businesses big and small realize this, right. So This is why NVIDIA is, you know, come and set up the data.

00:08:59 Andrew Sheng

Centers, you know, people like Microsoft, all these big names are selling the data centers in Malaysia because we've got cheap energy and lots of water. But we've also got a talent. Now the question is, can that talent be, you know, be taught how to use?

00:09:14 Andrew Sheng

This so the the business sector is really being as this podcast series says open for business. You know, Evelyn's got all that access to that wonderful knowledge here in Bristol. And as evidence says, there are a lot of Bristol graduates in Malaysia. You know, these people, young people are.

00:09:34 Andrew Sheng

Are being utilized.

00:09:36 Andrew Sheng

To beginning to use AI to transform different sectors. So for example we all know with a very good AI, you really don't need that many lawyers in in some sense, right. So we have to rethink how that business model will change. So you know the.

00:09:56 Andrew Sheng

The tension is huge and we're only just scratching the surface at this point.

00:10:00 Will Mountford

And by comparison to other countries in the area we've mentioned, as you know, Singapore being able to pay higher prices, Hong Kong able to pay higher prices for similar skills for similar networks.

00:10:12 Will Mountford

Where is Malaysia kind of fitting into that kind of the neighbourhood, I suppose of nations. What makes Malaysia the next big thing?

00:10:21 Andrew Sheng

We like to think that Malaysia is an ecosystem of Geo biodiversity. You know we have some of the oldest forests around. We have some of the most pristine marine reefs, so there's lots of biodiversity which has not been properly studied.

00:10:39 Andrew Sheng

And I think, you know, increasingly the Malaysian Government is, you know, welcoming more of the research institutes from Bristol and elsewhere to come and study this biodiversity before it's all lost because, you know, as you know, deep deforestation is a major problem. Pollution of the Seas is a major problem. Bleaching of coral reefs.

00:10:59 Andrew Sheng

Is a problem. How do we stop that? How do we use the latest technology, you know, especially AI, to speed up the decision making right and to try and find out how we can restore the ecosystem. You know, it's a huge opportunity, but it we just need to grab it.

00:11:23 Will Mountford

If you think of other world tech hubs, think of places like Silicon Valley in the US. Is there something that could be done from a policy or incentive approach to facilitate that, not just from education and business, but also?

00:11:39 Will Mountford

And of the social underpinnings of who's going to help make all of that work.

00:11:42 Andrew Sheng

The Silicon Valley model has been very, very important, very influential and I think everybody in Asia studying this.

00:11:50 Andrew Sheng

We've recently been looking very carefully at how do we inculcate.

00:11:56 Andrew Sheng

Not just the private equity funds, but the impact investors who can actually nurture, you know, the 10 years ago there were only 300 startups. Today there are more than 3000 and you know within the next 5 years, 30,000 I I I have no doubt the growth is going to be exponential. The issue is.

00:12:16 Andrew Sheng

A lot of the young people don't don't get access to funding.

00:12:20 Andrew Sheng

And so we're creating a social Stock Exchange. We're creating, you know, a new crowdfunding for these people. And, you know, in in this area, I think increasingly as the world trend shows, a lot of the startups are in actually artificial intelligence.

00:12:39 Will Mountford

And Evelyn, I understand.

00:12:41 Will Mountford

What I'm now in is referred to as the Silicon Gorge of the UK is that.

00:12:44 Prof Evelyn Welch

Right. So we have Silicon Valley and here in Bristol we have Silicon Gorge and startups are really interesting because I'd say a decade ago, whether you were a university in Singapore or university in the UK, particularly University of Bristol.

00:13:01 Prof Evelyn Welch

It was unusual to say what can I do to make money with my research? Very common in California, very common at MIT, but we we had to actually rethink what are universities for.

00:13:17 Prof Evelyn Welch

And universities are not ivory towers. They are places where we create really interesting, fascinating research. And then we say, what can we do with that research? How can we get it into the hands of people who need it the most? And that includes not just our students who want to create.

00:13:37 Prof Evelyn Welch

Businesses out of the.

00:13:38 Prof Evelyn Welch

Research, but also existing businesses that might benefit from our research. So we are now known for producing around 1/3 of the UK's quantum spinners and we aim we have an aspiration to have about 6 deep tack spinouts every year. So quantum artificial intelligence clean.

00:14:00 Prof Evelyn Welch

Energy, health, technology to name only a few. But as Andrew says, that requires investment. That means that our student startups, our staff, startups are, you know, really exciting innovation. Ideas need that investment.

00:14:18 Prof Evelyn Welch

And too often, we're all still going to the United States for that investment. So one of the things that our close relationship between the University of Bristol and institutions and alumni investors in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia is that our student startups.

00:14:38 Prof Evelyn Welch

In particular, but also our staff.

00:14:40 Prof Evelyn Welch

Startups really know that their markets are not just in Western Europe. Their markets are increasingly in Asia, so they can do a short term stay, let's say, at National University of Singapore or one of the great Malaysian universities.

00:14:58 Prof Evelyn Welch

Where they can actually trial their startup ideas in the Asian market, that's really win win.

00:15:06 Will Mountford

And what is it about? Bristol, as you know, the university, the city, the region that you think facilitates that spin up mentality the most. Is it just something in the water in the harbour?

00:15:17 Prof Evelyn Welch

There's something in the coffee in Bristol that really creates spinner success. I think success breeds success, so particularly around our quantum startups, there's a lot of heavy kit involve.

00:15:32 Prof Evelyn Welch

Often you've got to get temperatures down, you know, to to really super cooling temperatures. Now, not everywhere has the technology that allows you to do that systematically. So we not only have that technology within the university, one of our graduates who created.

00:15:52 Prof Evelyn Welch

A spin out, which he sold for around $800 million, has created an incubation hub called science creates, and he is now moving not only into the life sciences startup, but also into that deep science startup. So we now have three places where our graduates can go.

00:16:11 Prof Evelyn Welch

Grow and grow outside the university, their companies with an entrepreneurial mindset but with high quality kit that they need, which would match that of the university. So you need the people you need the environment, you need the kit and above all you need.

00:16:31 Prof Evelyn Welch

Great coffee. And guess what? Malaysia has some of the best coffee I've ever.

00:16:36 Andrew Sheng

Had. Thank you, Evelyn. Yeah.

00:16:39 Will Mountford

The City of Bristol is changing geographically to accommodate all of that kit. All the building, the facilities that go into it and the science creates building over in the Old Market Department. And there's also the changes coming from the University of Bristol campus approach. Could you tell me some?

00:16:53 Prof Evelyn Welch

About that. So a temple called to Enterprise Campus really gives us a cutting edge.

00:16:59 Prof Evelyn Welch

It means that you'll be able to get off at platform 15 in Temple Mead station and walk straight onto the University of Bristol campus. Graduates from the University of Bristol will remember that long, slow walk up the hill to the Clifton.

00:17:13 Prof Evelyn Welch

One person that will still be there for those who want to come up and see the views, but we will have an enterprise campus and where stage 1 is what we're calling CM1 or cattle market. One very large building where it will be totally opened. Staff, students, researchers in.

00:17:33 Prof Evelyn Welch

Particularly cybersecurity, AI engineering, our new Business School and our partners, particularly our commercial partners and our startup partners, all able to enjoy the same facility.

00:17:47 Prof Evelyn Welch

Because it will take those barriers to conversations that create new products and new ideas, it'll really lower them to a a level where actually now I do keep coming back with coffee or a cup of coffee might spark an idea between a researcher and a commercial partner that goes on.

00:18:07 Prof Evelyn Welch

To create the next Unicorn here in the University of Brian.

00:18:11 Will Mountford

Well, we're talking about some very urban approaches, supercomputers and all the computer power that is needed for them and for everything that's happening in Malaysia to attract that kind of AI talent, the Silicon Valley approach, but also that this is going to be serving people, as you mentioned in the biodiversity scheme, that there is a lot of people.

00:18:30 Will Mountford

Outside of the cities who work, who live, who are part of a much more rural environment, how is AI and changes in policy around AI going to help reach those people?

00:18:42 Andrew Sheng

Well, the the ability of for example, you know, drone, GPS, right, micro sensors you know can today monitor what's happening you know on the tree cover what's happening to the Pomona states, what's happening to the squirrel population, what's happening to the.

00:19:02 Andrew Sheng

Even the King Cobra population, which is actually feeding off the the squirrels that eat the Pawel nuts, you know all this is science. I mean, this is data and you know these new technologies, you know, really helping it. What I think I I really like about you know the.

00:19:20 Andrew Sheng

Bristol model is.

00:19:22 Andrew Sheng

You're building the technology and you're building the Business School and that Business School is, you know, is new, but it's, it's open to new ideas on how do you actually cross fertilize ideas at the technology front. But as Evelyn says, on the organizational front, because we're, we're, we're, we're now working with very, very different.

00:19:42 Andrew Sheng

Models in the old days we have to sit together to have a cup.

00:19:46 Andrew Sheng

But today it's half zoom half, you know WhatsApp and you know all that. We can network together. So for example, you know one Penang scientist trained in the UK, you know, has just brought some brilliant ideas over fiber optics that he learned in the UK.

00:20:05 Andrew Sheng

And now applying in in in in Penang.

00:20:08 Andrew Sheng

Right. How do we do this?

00:20:10 Andrew Sheng

Well, you know the.

00:20:13 Andrew Sheng

It's a cross fertilization of ideas. Now, exactly as Edlin says. How do we build that infrastructure the the, the institutions, the funding and the, you know, collective, you know, student talent, the business talent that will help take this idea to the next level. That's that's our challenge.

00:20:33 Andrew Sheng

And I think you know, it's very exciting because I, you know, I think there are a lot.

00:20:36 Andrew Sheng

Of areas where where Bristol.

00:20:38 Andrew Sheng

Is heading. We can benefit, you know, from cooperation and collaboration.

00:20:43 Will Mountford

For any listeners out there who are particularly averse to small rodents and maybe especially snakes, they might ask, is it a worthwhile time to be spending money and effort looking after squirrels and snakes? Is that a cost effective way to put drones and micro sensors to work?

00:20:59 Andrew Sheng

Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, we we live in.

00:21:03 Andrew Sheng

A world of.

00:21:03 Andrew Sheng

Biodiversity there is a role and a place for everything. I mean, you know, if there are too many squirrels, they will eat all the palm seeds. So the the, the, the Cobras actually keep the squirrels, you know, in the.

00:21:16 Andrew Sheng

Runs right, but if there are too many of these cobras, the workers don't dare to go into the plantations and actually can harm, you know, the the ecology. So trying to find the research for this all this.

00:21:27 Andrew Sheng

Is very, very important.

00:21:29 Will Mountford

Well, as well as kind of the deployment of technology and the giving of information, just technology, drones, senses into rural environments is their scope to receive and reciprocate and kind of build on information from rural communities. Local industries. Is there room to take their feedback on both.

00:21:50 Prof Evelyn Welch

Absolutely. So these these arrangements between countries, between different Community groups and AI researchers need to be absolutely reciprocal. It can't be that in the global N we say we have the supercomputer. Give us your data and we'll come back to you in a year or two with some ideas that you can put into practice.

00:22:10 Prof Evelyn Welch

Absolutely has to be a conversation between people who respect each other's expertise.

00:22:17 Prof Evelyn Welch

Rural farmers understand weather patterns better than almost anyone else. Climate change and climate change issues are very much in their hands because they know locally. Some of the best mechanisms for keeping the balance and whether it's between different predators or whether it's different ways of making sure.

00:22:40 Prof Evelyn Welch

That you really target the this the scarce water or the scarce light or the?

00:22:47 Prof Evelyn Welch

Scarce resources that are needed for our thriving ecosystem, so we want to work in collaboration. The University of Bristol, after all, was founded in part because and cider manufacturers in Somerset wanted to make sure that they really understood high quality.

00:23:07 Prof Evelyn Welch

Apple products.

00:23:09 Prof Evelyn Welch

And we're also a place where Ribena was discovered. So we have a strong agrarian underpinning and artificial intelligence can do things at speed. It's a very dumb tool for something that is very intelligent.

00:23:29 Prof Evelyn Welch

What it can do is take a huge quantity of data and process it in blisteringly fast time.

00:23:37 Prof Evelyn Welch

So that allows you to do things like look at where the patterns and predict the future more accurately. But the groups who will then know what to do with that information have to be look.

00:23:59 Will Mountford

And in terms of?

00:23:59 Will Mountford

Then a curriculum or a course design. How are those different stakeholders being integrated into? You mentioned the temple quarter and everything's happening at the University of Bristol, but across the higher education sector.

00:24:11 Prof Evelyn Welch

So we have something called the Africa Charter, which we have developed with the University of Cape Town, which is a way of trying to rebalance between global north and global South. And one of the questions that we're now asking is it's not just universities in the US, the UK and Europe and those in continental.

00:24:32 Prof Evelyn Welch

Africa. It's also in Latin America and in Asia. How do we actually, collaboratively and collectively work together for a better planet, a more resilient planet and a better space for people and and and the biodiversity.

00:24:52 Prof Evelyn Welch

In which they thrive.

00:24:54 Prof Evelyn Welch

That's tricky, because I think as you said at.

00:24:57 Prof Evelyn Welch

The beginning, the.

00:24:59 Prof Evelyn Welch

Cost of one of these supercomputers in terms of the NVIDIA chips, but even more so the energy that's required to power them. Now that's just not possible for many parts of the world.

00:25:14 Prof Evelyn Welch

Either to purchase the chips or to purchase the electricity. So we actually have to think about what is our long term responsibility, not just about powering the UK.

00:25:26 Prof Evelyn Welch

A as a place for innovative startups and great new businesses, but also for the kinds of things that are really going to matter to the future of our students and our children, and again in our new Business School, many of our new programs will be designed to bring in both.

00:25:46 Prof Evelyn Welch

An understanding of basic business, you know, finance, accounting, management, leadership, but also data science, artificial intelligence, quantum cyber, etc.

00:25:57 Prof Evelyn Welch

And then also, what are the ethics of artificial intelligence? What are our responsibilities to the future? We think that's a great curriculum that will be attractive to students around the world.

00:26:10 Will Mountford

Well, to start drawing things to a close, you mentioned that AI is going to be very good at helping integrate lots of information to help predict the near term future. Is that something that either of you would dare to take on to say where you see things heading in the next 2-3, maybe five years?

00:26:26 Andrew Sheng

You earlier talked about the role of the rural people. 5% of the world's population, which is indigenous, are responsible for 80% of the biodiversity, which is, you know, the people in Malaysia. You know, the orange, lastly, the people, you know, in the hills, the original people, you know, are guardians of our forests.

00:26:45 Andrew Sheng

Which are, you know, hundreds of millions of years old and a lot of the our we are the sea people. They're responsible for the reefs and the fishing and all that. They have huge knowledge, they they really understand how to how to live with the.

00:27:00 Andrew Sheng

Nature how do we draw on them and how do we actually, you know, help them actually deal with modernity. We would have to use AI because a lot of that data is it's not quite available yet because we need to extract it from the at the local level. But we will use it at the global level to to feedback to them and how to.

00:27:20 Andrew Sheng

You know, regenerate our forests and and refresh our arcs.

00:27:25 Prof Evelyn Welch

So artificial intelligence.

00:27:27 Prof Evelyn Welch

AI supercomputers can do remarkable things. They can cut through a whole range of different target molecules and say, yes, that's the one that we'll do for diabetes. They can look at hundreds of millions of scans of healthy breasts.

00:27:45 Prof Evelyn Welch

And say that's a sign, a very early sign of breast cancer. Well, what they can't do yet is have a drink with you. What they can't do yet is cook you a meal. They can certainly tell you how to cook a meal, but they can't actually cook it for you now.

00:28:04 Prof Evelyn Welch

That might change, but when we sat down with our student union officers this time last year, and So what does the future look like? Not just in a few years, but actually in about 40 to 45 years.

00:28:18 Prof Evelyn Welch

Their answer was, forget neural Linx. Forget artificial intelligence taking over the world 4045 years ago, we were still going to the pub. We were still playing football. We were still learning to enjoy ourselves with each other. We predict in 45 years.

00:28:38 Prof Evelyn Welch

That will also be that expression of humanity, whether it is in indigenous people or in playing bridge or in playing football, or in having a beer together.

00:28:56 Prof Evelyn Welch

I think that will still be the human touch.

00:29:01

Well.

00:29:01 Will Mountford

On that note, I'd like to say thank you.

00:29:02 Will Mountford

Both so much.

00:29:03 Will Mountford

For your time. Thank you. Thank you.